New Member: List of 11 Katanas, Which is the Best Buy?

[J Cooper]

Hey all, I just joined the forums after facing some tough questions on which is the superior Katana buy.

I spent a lot of time on the "Sword Buyer's Guide", which really opened my eyes up to all of the amounts of fraud going on with stores trying to sell "real" katana swords.

Then, I saw the thread here about the mediocre quality of Thaitsuki Nihonto, and that got me thinking that I need to know more.
http://www.thaitsuki.com/thaitsuki-swords.shtml

So, anyway, I have compiled a list of all of the current Katanas I am looking to purchase (Of course, I will only end up buying one or 2 at the most).

So, enough chat, let's get onto the list!!

#1: 4,000 Layer Forge Folded Kobuse Lamination Samurai Katana Sword Aki Kage - by MUNETOSHI
http://www.swordnarmory.com/ProductD...Show=TechSpecs

#2: Cheness 9260 "Shura" Ko-Katana (WITH bo-hi)
http://www.samuraiswordstore.com/sto...o%252dhi).html

#3: Cheness 9260 "Tenchi" Ko Katana (BLACK Tsuka WITH bo-hi)
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/chene...withbo-hi.aspx

#4: Cheness "O-Katana"
http://www.samurai-swords-for-sale.c...productid=1416

#5: Paul Chen Hanwei Miyamoto Musashi Daito
http://www.samuraiwarriorswords.com/...ana-p-292.html

#6: 29 in. F/F Tri-steel Katana
with Hi - Musashi Theme
http://www.gungfu.com/htm-swords/sam...ashi-theme.htm

#7: Dynasty Forge 28.5 in. 1095H Katana with Hi - Mokko Vine w. Green Ito
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/285in...wgreenito.aspx

#8: Dynasty Forge 29.5 in.1095 Katana with Hi - Cherry Blossom Theme
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/dynas...ssomtheme.aspx

#9: Dynasty Forge Bushi KATANA WITH Bo-HI (28.5") - 1095 Hybrid Line MOKKO VINE With Same
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/dynas...ewithsame.aspx

#10: Dynasty Forge Bushi Tri-Steel Katana (29") - Mokko Theme (NO Bo-Hi)
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/dynas...menobo-hi.aspx

#11: Paul Chen Hanwei Shinto Katana Sword
http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=1821834

and FINALLY, I would like to ask about a particular forge:

Huanuo Katana Swords
http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/fo...rds-43-ctg.htm

I have never heard of Huanuo, are they any good? How do they compare with other names like Hanwei, Dynasty Forge, etc?

OK, take a breather, I know thats a lengthy list, but when you get the chance to look through some of them please come back and comment!

Thanks all and its good to be here!

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally Posted by J Cooper

Huanuo Katana Swords
http://www.samurai-sword-shop.com/fo...rds-43-ctg.htm

I have never heard of Huanuo, are they any good? How do they compare with other names like Hanwei, Dynasty Forge, etc?

Huanuo, theoretically, is the same as Dynasty, just a different outlet, last I'd heard.

A fun game to play (which I love to do on occasion) is when looking at swords, compare them to each other. Typically you can find swords that are strikingly similar, offered by different companies, but probably made by the same place.

Huanuo or Dynasty are good, anything Hanwei usually is as well

[Mark Trick]

"Best" is subjective.

You have a very long list of katana. Some differ only in fittings but you also have a mix of through hardened and differentially hardened with quite different blade profiles. For example you list a Cheness o-katana and a shinto. These are night and day.

I would start by defining what you want and expect from a sword.

[Casey Pettus]

honestly I was going to say the same thing.

you have the ko-katana listed as well as the o-katana.

Then from Dynasty Forge you have the forge folded and the through hardened.

How tall are you? What do you plan on using this sword for? 2-4 shaku is about a "standard" length (for western practitioners), but that varies a lot by the size of the user and the style of iai.

We need more information from you, before we can help you find what you are looking for.

[Scott Turchin]

I was one of the original purchasers of a Thaitsuki before I heard others.

I'd be curious, if in the past year to two, if anyone else is displeased or NOT?

I had already placed an order for the Wakizashi, but let me tell you - it's NIGHT and Day quality difference between the two - the Wak is beautiful, not a scratch on it, very high polish job, and sharp as all get out..

I'm not suggesting to buy one, but I'm merely curious if anyone has - it was already stated these guys made swords, just not Japanese styleswords.

Perhaps they have improved their QA...

Or not?

[J Cooper]

Originally Posted by Casey Pettus

honestly I was going to say the same thing.

you have the ko-katana listed as well as the o-katana.

Then from Dynasty Forge you have the forge folded and the through hardened.

How tall are you? What do you plan on using this sword for? 2-4 shaku is about a "standard" length (for western practitioners), but that varies a lot by the size of the user and the style of iai.

We need more information from you, before we can help you find what you are looking for.

I'm 5' 7" and looking for the best practical katana for the price among the ones I listed. I dont think I really can elaborate much more on what I mean by "practical"

[Casey Pettus]

I would suggest 7

or if you want the look of the folded steel, number 10.

the roughly 500 dollar difference between 7 and 8 is the hand polishing. For a practical piece, I wouldn't suggest the expense.

I think 7 presents the best value for a nice looking and overall quality cutter.

It has bo-hi, and number 10 doesn't. So that's something to consider.

I also suggest the Kumoryu Nohara grade 2 katana from last legend. 1090 steel, differentially hardened. About the same price range. 600 gets you the folded version, so comparable to number 10.

Edit: I just checked their internet stores, and swordarmory is out of those, but they do have the special edition Shinkuma in for like 340. Probably worth a look.

http://www.swordarmory.com/05kat/shinkuma/shinkuma.html

Last legend is known for less than authentic looks but they are good cutters.

If you want the best all around sword for the money (including looks), I'd still say number 7 from your list.

[J Cooper]

Originally Posted by Casey Pettus

...

Thanks for the suggestion, so Dynasty Forge is definatey the way to go over the Chenesses?

By the way, what is your take on #1, does "4000 Layer Forge Folded" mean anything or is that just supposed to be an eye-catching title?

[Casey Pettus]

Well that is my opinion, I can't speak for anyone else on this forum.

I do have a Cheness in shirasaya, which I am considering mounting. It's been a few years since I've looked closely at Cheness, but at the time the general opinion that I picked up from multiple forum threads was that the fittings were too weak, and in some cases posed a safety threat.

As for #1, layers don't attest to quality, and I've never heard of that forge. You see a lot of swords in that price range with the free kit and the certificate and such...those are really not a good deal. For the money, that probably means a non existant heat treatment, which basically will give you a carbon steel wallhanger.

There's a thread arguing the bonuses of forged vs folded, and lamination types, etc.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=94002

[J Cooper]

Yea I've never heard of Munetoshi either, the Sword Buyer's Guide does mention them here:
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sw...interview.html

More of their stuff here:
http://www.swordnarmory.com/Munetosh...word-s/304.htm

[Casey Pettus]

Just looking at the fittings and the sageo on those, I think that you are throwing away 250 dollars that could go to a better and more useful purchase.

Again, just my two cents. I have no experience with the brand. Maybe someone who does could offer advice to you.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally Posted by J Cooper

Thanks for the suggestion, so Dynasty Forge is definatey the way to go over the Chenesses?

By the way, what is your take on #1, does "4000 Layer Forge Folded" mean anything or is that just supposed to be an eye-catching title?

Dynasty is the better choice, yes. Chenness is a decent company, but that's in their particular price range.

Things to consider in purchasing a sword to cut with:

1. What are you cutting

2. How much training have you had, have you cut before?

3. Do you think you might botch a cut with it?

These can lead to a decision such as hi, or no hi, as the hi, while making the sword lighter, can cause an issue such as easier bending and setting on a botched cut.

If you want a sword to be practical, go with a thru hardened blade. Less chance of it taking a set in a bend.

[Glen C.]

Welcome To Sword Forum International

Sword Buyers Guide is a vendor site, in and of itself. Despite what may look like best intentions is simply an outlet for the cheapest way to go for anyone. Some may really feel that is not the case and I do agree that there is some value in the raw data available from the site's pages and forum reviews.

Unfortunately, it can be a grand waste of time and money. The bottom line for many examples from many sources is that someone may agree as far as to say "well, not bad for the money" or "what did you expect for the money?". This from the vendors themselves. To me, it is somewhat criminal to then support some pretty bad builds that are often ohhed and ahhhed about when there are some pretty simple flaws that could have been avoided.

Especially with the Japanese style swords, knowledge will be to your own benefit in the long run. Instead of looking at 12 different retail offerings to make a decision (or expecting others to choose for you) spend some time learning about the sword type first. The threads here are somewhat endless and regard the same first comer questions. Start with the sticky threads in this very subforum. Don't forget to view any board back to the beginning and not just the default of a month or two. Look at the view options at the bottom of each thread index. Spend some time building bookmarks that teach you instead of sites looking for your money.

I am no expert on the retail market for katanaesque swords at the time but I did finally break down to buy a Hanwei PK long ago. It was not my first sword. It was not even within the few years of owning swords and interests.

Take your time. Looking is almost as fun and certainly a lot cheaper. Ignore the manufacturer list at the top here. Learn the sword type first (or at least venture to while shopping).

Some of my early oggling and impressions were from sites such as
http://www.antiqueswords.com/

and some of the early American maker's sites like Michael Bell and Howard Clark. Bugei came along about the mid 1990s. What we have now in general is a real mess of possibilities and quite a few sources with more errors in build than enduring qualities.

Cheers

Hotspur; machetes are dirt cheap and often better buys in the long run than a lot of the retail (and even sponsored "customs") katana

[J Cooper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis

Dynasty is the better choice, yes. Chenness is a decent company, but that's in their particular price range.

Things to consider in purchasing a sword to cut with:

1. What are you cutting

2. How much training have you had, have you cut before?

3. Do you think you might botch a cut with it?

These can lead to a decision such as hi, or no hi, as the hi, while making the sword lighter, can cause an issue such as easier bending and setting on a botched cut.

If you want a sword to be practical, go with a thru hardened blade. Less chance of it taking a set in a bend.

I managed to take a Kendo class for a year, so I am familiar with the fundamentals. however, I am no where near expert, so if I mess up, I would want a sword that can be durable and wistand a few *hiccups*, so to speak. I understand that is going to limit my choices given what I have listed

Btw, on a side note it looks like #6 is the same as #10, just differnt tsuba

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally Posted by J Cooper

I managed to take a Kendo class for a year, so I am familiar with the fundamentals. however, I am no where near expert, so if I mess up, I would want a sword that can be durable and wistand a few *hiccups*, so to speak. I understand that is going to limit my choices given what I have listed

Btw, on a side note it looks like #6 is the same as #10, just differnt tsuba

It's possible.

http://dynastyforge.com/ might help a lot

If it's your first cutter, go with something that has no hi and isn't going to sting too much if you happen to have an oops. Dynasty is (I think) working with Fred Chen or one of his spinoff forges. Fred has been around a while, no relation to Paul.

Look up Cicada Forge in the search and you can see where they started.

DF is a great choice, though.

I would suggest more training in JSA if you're really up for it. I have a little experience in it and absolutely love it.

[J Cooper]

Originally Posted by Glen C.

Especially with the Japanese style swords, knowledge will be to your own benefit in the long run.

Oh, I dont doubt that at all. In fact, that's what I hope to gain eventually. It's just that I have spent a good deal of time looking for the best quality practical katanas below $1,000, and no matter how good the specs seem, there is always some crucial detail I miss that others point out is not worth the money.

So, I figure I compile a list of ones I am slightly familiar with and whose specs seem good at first glance, and have some experts on here point me in the right direction (such as telling me if some of the ones I have listed is not worth the money/has a poor quality feature, and so forth).

but I am with you Glen. Although it appears I am just going around posting arbitrary katanas in hopes people will choose them for me, thats not my intention

[Jeff Ellis]

Might I suggest http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...SVY519W8NGQBPR as a great way to learn that won't cost you too much?

[J Cooper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis

Might I suggest http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...SVY519W8NGQBPR as a great way to learn that won't cost you too much?

Wow, that looks like a fantastic read, I will definately look into owning a copy, thanks!

[Tsugio Kawakami]

Someone asked about Munetoshi...and that's convenient, since I recently started working for the company producing them. ^_^


Now, I will admit...when I first was looking at the company, the pictures and titles struck me as...well...very bad. I still don't like the pics and titles, and my fiancé (who also works there) and I are pushing to get some new pictures and descriptions up on the site. We'll see what happens with that.

The heat treat is actually good, which surprised me at first. Active hamon with nice things like tobiyaki for personality, actual nie structure, obvious utsuri on some blades, occasional chikei, etc. I wish the pictures on the site were better. I can post some if people want to see what I'm talking about.

I've cut with all of the currently offered models and have yet to be disappointed by their performance.

Ito is synthetic, and very similar (if not identical) to the ito on DF Musha pieces from what I can see and feel. The sageo, more often than not, are just there so that there is a sageo there. I'm hoping for some better sageo on future generations. They've been really quick to take what suggestions I've had, though, so the sageo may be changing. I don't know. Don't quote me on that just yet.

I won't lie. There is most definitely room for improvement, but my boss seems to really like improvement. That makes me happy. Please don't write this line off too quickly.

If you're looking at forge folded Munetoshi swords, the Katsu is a much better sword than the Aki Kage. http://www.swordnarmory.com/4-000-La...1bk-katate.htm



Anyhoo, yeah. Sorry. Don't mean to sound preachy. I'm just still all excited at the new shipment.

[J Cooper]

Thanks Tsugio on the Munetoshi info!!

As a rule of thumb, is it assumed if the product description does not mention Niku that the sword bears little?

[Tsugio Kawakami]

Originally Posted by J Cooper

Thanks Tsugio on the Munetoshi info!!

As a rule of thumb, is it assumed if the product description does not mention Niku that the sword bears little?

My pleasure.

Do you mean for Munetoshi or for swords in general? A good phrase for many production swords is "tired out of the box". I think Kieth Larman said it. A lot of production swords have very little niku.

[Douglas W.]

Dynasty forge makes great stuff.
I would put them at the top of the list way before Cheness.
The polish is the best I've seen in the lower price ranges.
Check out http://www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/ every now and then he'll have them on special of the week for really great prices.
Or sign up at his forums, and his email, his forum members get more discounts, and he sends specials out via email every monday.
Besides DF my next choice would probably be a hanwei.
Not a real big fan of cheness but I really like my kaze.

[J Cooper]

thanks for the link, Douglas.

Although, I am noticing some disparity of the DF Tri-Steel Bushi blade from 'Swords of the East' and Wiwingti

SOTE
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/dynas...withbo-hi.aspx

Wiwingti
http://www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/2204-1.jpg

http://www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/b...rgefolded.html

(notice how the tip of the blade is more defined on the bushi sword from SOTE)

[Mark Trick]

Originally Posted by J Cooper

thanks for the link, Douglas.

Although, I am noticing some disparity of the DF Tri-Steel Bushi blade from 'Swords of the East' and Wiwingti

SOTE
http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/dynas...withbo-hi.aspx

Wiwingti
http://www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/2204-1.jpg

http://www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com/b...rgefolded.html

(notice how the tip of the blade is more defined on the bushi sword from SOTE)

The difference is geometry, not disparity.

The SOTE blade is shinogi-zukuri, the other is a shobu-zukuri. Shobu geometry does not include a yokote in the kissaki.

[Jeff Ellis]

Originally Posted by Mark Trick

The difference is geometry, not disparity.

The SOTE blade is shinogi-zukuri, the other is a shobu-zukuri. Shobu geometry does not include a yokote in the kissaki.

Yet you can not add a yokote to a shobu and call it a shinogi zukuri, nor cna you remove the yokote from a shinogi zukuri and call it a shobu, there are a lot of geometrical differences in the two when done right.