Red Dragonfly Sword - *Update*

[D. Roan]

Update -

I received my replacement Sageo in the mail today. If you recall, I had asked for black and white sageo but my sword had been finished in black chemical sageo - standard fare, but not black/white. Jason promised me that he would send me a replacement black/white at the end of the month. It arrived today.

I was expecting black and white chemical silk, like this:



And what I received was black/white SILK KORAI SAGEO.



The cheapest I can find this for at Yamato Budogu is around $100 USD. I have had my eye on it in the past, but I never dreamed he would send me this - and I haven't been able to ever find it in black and white. Sageo of this grade is unheard of for katana under $1000 - something like 99% of them are finished with the universal chemical silk. You can imagine how blown away I was to open the envelope and find this. I forgot to add - ZERO COST TO ME. No shipping, no replacement fee, no sending my old black sageo back.

Spent the morning taking some pics for you guys. I hope you enjoy (I am aware I tied it with an extra loop on both sides - the length of the cord dictated it):















I can't say enough about the level of customer service I have received with Red Dragonfly Sword Art. I have never been hassled about a change, I have never been disappointed with the quality of work on ANY aspect of the katana made for me, and I have never seen the dedication to producing such a high level of finish that I have with RDS for what amounted to about the price of a Hanwei Tiger or Tori. I am still blown away.

If you are one of the people graduating up from the $300 market to something higher as I was, I strongly recommend you buy from them. So many reviews for production katana of every level describe fit and finish on certain aspects of their katana as "good for the price," or "what can you expect for this price." That does not apply here. I expected solid work, and hoped for a good piece. What I got was this - the pictures speak for themselves.

[Hrvoje Samija]

Wow... For the katana, and also for the Customer Service of RDS... I'm jelous...

[Gyan G.]

Wow that sageo is stunning, it looks fantastic mounted on the sword, to make a great looking sword overall.

Amazing CS for a production line company.

[M. Vaughn]

Very sharp-looking sageo for a beautiful sword, thank you for sharing. I'm thinking about a tamahagane katana from Red Dragonfly when I buy my next sword.

[D. Roan]

Thanks! See my review in the Reviews section for the full look. I'm having such a good day

[David Wilson]

Dan,

Looks terrific, RDS seem to be leading the way, for Chinese based manufacturers, for their customer service. It would've been so easy for them to have just forgotten about the sageo detail!.
You know how well Jason treated my order too so I can also testify, first hand, to the excellent service they provide.

Keep the faith,

Dave

[Glenn Jones]

I too can vouch for the excellent service provided by Jason at RDS. I haven't as yet bought a katana from Jason but have been in discussions with him via email and his communications have always been fast, informative and polite.

[Chris Maguda]

I was so impressed by your experience with RDS I'm in talks with them now on creating me a custom Katana to be used for Kata and Tameshigiri..

I'm looking for either a "Wave" or "Storm" theme for the Katana with silver or white brass fittings, tsuba and menuki.. maybe a blue cloth wrap or black leather with black rayskin? Not sure yet.. hmm..

Either way, I'm very excited to see what they can do

I'll keep everyone updated as to how this goes so we can have more data to work with from the RDS experience.

[D. Roan]

That's awesome! I'm glad we could help. If you could convince him to send me a free wakazashi or tanto for all the referrals that'd be great

Your new katana sounds like it will be great. I love the idea of silver or white brass. Don't hesitate to ask them about things that they don't show on their website either. The tsuba and menuki on mine aren't anywhere on their site. When Jason goes to Japan I think he picks up whatever he needs there. And on the saya of someone's RDS they did some great lacquered rattan work as well.

I thought I knew what I wanted too. For example, originally it was black same with blue cotton ito, then blue silk, then black same with black leather, then white same with black leather. I never got hassled about a change, provided it hadn't already been finished yet. Please let us know what you choose and how progress is going. RDS customs get me excited like not much else in the production world these days.

Best of luck. I hope your experience will be as good as mine.

[Glen C.]

That's awesome! I'm glad we could help. If you could convince him to send me a free wakazashi or tanto for all the referrals that'd be great

Even better, have the source contribute some of the free advertising proceeds to venues such as Sword Forum International. Their initial foray on this board and others has left a bit of a stale spam odor, despite offering what may be some very nice swords.

Cheers

Hotspur; not that there is anything wrong with good customer service

[D. Roan]

Oooh I did not know that. Apologies if I added to the foray.

[Chris Maguda]

Originally Posted by D. Roan

That's awesome! I'm glad we could help. If you could convince him to send me a free wakazashi or tanto for all the referrals that'd be great

Your new katana sounds like it will be great. I love the idea of silver or white brass. Don't hesitate to ask them about things that they don't show on their website either. The tsuba and menuki on mine aren't anywhere on their site. When Jason goes to Japan I think he picks up whatever he needs there. And on the saya of someone's RDS they did some great lacquered rattan work as well.

I thought I knew what I wanted too. For example, originally it was black same with blue cotton ito, then blue silk, then black same with black leather, then white same with black leather. I never got hassled about a change, provided it hadn't already been finished yet. Please let us know what you choose and how progress is going. RDS customs get me excited like not much else in the production world these days.

Best of luck. I hope your experience will be as good as mine.

I had a dream I was training in a thunderstorm on top of a high cliff overlooking the ocean. The rain and lightining and thunder and waves were amazing.. and then the sword I held.. it was like every swing made the lightining strike.. and I remember it so clearly.

That's mainly the reason I want silver and blue for the theme.. and either waves or storm fittings..

That's exactly why I chose to go with RDS.. they have a style that caught my eye and I want this sword to be perfect like in my dreams

[Bret B. Dusic]

Could someone please pm me contact info for Red Dragonfly if such is available. I have read much about them but the neo luddite that I am has had sad search fu...

Thanks..

[Kent Enfield]

Am I the only one that sees the ill-fitted habaki that is going to catch on and damage the koiguchi?

[D. Roan]

Hmm. Tell you the truth I haven't noticed that, though I'm not in the same city as the sword at the moment to check for you. I do know that so far the koiguchi hasn't been touched drawing and resheathing, but when I get back I'd be more than willing to double-check. If I have missed something, I'd love to learn from it.

[Chris Maguda]

Originally Posted by Kent Enfield

Am I the only one that sees the ill-fitted habaki that is going to catch on and damage the koiguchi?

Without being able to see the habaki in the above pictures, I cannot see what you're talking about. Maybe if the blade were unsheathed 1" or so it would be easier to tell..?

[Kent Enfield]

Originally Posted by Chris Maguda

Without being able to see the habaki in the above pictures, I cannot see what you're talking about.

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...89&postcount=2

[Chris Maguda]

Originally Posted by Kent Enfield

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...89&postcount=2

Good call my friend! I forgot where he posted those pics!

There is a definitive gap for sure!! Unless it's just the lighting making it look so.. but it sure looks like it's open to me.. although D.Roan says it's smooth drawing and resheathing...

[Aaron Justice]

Originally Posted by Kent Enfield

Am I the only one that sees the ill-fitted habaki that is going to catch on and damage the koiguchi?

It is slightly wide, but then again the saya is wider than the fuchi as well. 95% of production katana are like that. I would imagine the extra saya width is wide enough for the habaki, if not, then a minute or two with a file would fix it.

I strongly prefer a saya with a width that matches the fuchi, but in the production world you take what you can get. I get a few matching pieces now and then in my Dynasty stock, but they do it for a profit to earn a living. A craftsman takes the time for all those extra tiny details, and doesn't mind going hungry for a night to create something he's really proud of.

[Kent Enfield]

Originally Posted by Aaron Justice

It is slightly wide, but then again the saya is wider than the fuchi as well. 95% of production katana are like that. I would imagine the extra saya width is wide enough for the habaki, if not, then a minute or two with a file would fix it.

It's not that the habaki is too wide for the saya. It's that it's too wide for the blade. The mune of the habaki protrudes beyond the mune of the toshin creating corners to catch on and gouge into the koiguchi.

If 95% of production katana are like that, then 95% of production katana have a serious, fundamental flaw. Just because it's common or even expected doesn't mean it's acceptable.

[D. Roan]

All I can say is that I haven't noticed it thus far, and I'll take a look at it when I get back. For this amount of time, and for the amount of eyes that have been on the katana, I still believe it has stood up pretty well in general to visual inspection. However, fair criticism and objectivity is what drives improvement, and it's definitely welcome here, so thanks Kent for the eyes and the comments.

Also, Justice makes an appearance. Nice to see you, looking forward to more of the custom Bushi FF.

[B Dreier]

Having read this thread and looking at the close up pictures of the new sageo, are you 100% sure it is a high end silk sageo? As all the high end sageo I purchase from Japan in silk do not hav ethe look that yours has. Your pictures show a fuzzy cotton look and the finish is flat with no sheen like the silk ones. Just making observations not throwing mud.

[D. Roan]

Brian,

No need for the disclaimer I cannot say 100% that it is, and I defer to your experience. BTW, glad to see you posting again. However, I will say that the photos I took were without flash which hides sheen and with some at extremely close distance which tends to overamplify small fibers coming off. In comparison to the stock photos that I presented at the first part of the post they look in finish to be about the same sheen to me as well. In any case, it may be possible that I'm mistaken, but I haven't ever seen cotton sageo woven this intricately, nor have I experienced in person any sort of fuzziness that would be more than expected from some silk ties that I own. Perhaps it is the quality of the weave, but it also feels much too smooth to be cotton to my hand. If it is cotton, it is lightyears more delicately put together than anything in cotton I've experienced before, and still I believe trumps soundly chemical silk without a question. I wish you guys brought up these points a few days ago when I was in the same town as the katana :P

[Jeffrey Ching]

@Brian + D. Roan
As far as I know these higher end sageo are not even produced in China due to the small market. Besides, I know that the guys in Shanghai of RDS / Kaneie constantly travel up and down to Japan for sword fittings, saya, ito / sageo. I don't see any reason why to doubt that it is indeed Japanese sageo. The quality of the sageo seems ok but I'm sure there's difference in different manufacturers.

[Keith Larman]

Snip a small bit off each side of the "fuzzy" ends of the sageo. Burn it with a lighter. If it smells like burning hair it is silk. If it smells like burning paper, cotton. If it smells like something else it is likely synthetic.

On the habaki... Fit is important, but how the blade goes over and seats in the koiguchi is rather complex. On the one hand the curvature of the blade (and subsequent proper carving of the saya) can sometimes lift the habaki enough to allow an oversized habaki to *not* catch most of the time. So ironically enough a somewhat odd sori can sometimes compensate for a poorly shaped habaki when it comes to noto.

Also, the "wings" of the habaki (the part of the side that protrudes up the blade past the mune machi) should create a ramping effect (again, assuming the saya maker is aware of how to do this) that pushes the blade up allowing a slightly higher mune on the habaki to clear without catching. So the sori of the blade along with the saya and the "wings" and the mune of habaki work together to ramp the entire sword into the koiguchi.

You will find habaki that look like this on antiques but that is usually only with older swords with very shallow machi due to repeated polishes. To have a functional habaki you can't have a foil thin mune on the habaki. So they make the habaki mune thicker (for functional reasons) but then they rely on the "wings" of the habaki and construction of the saya to ramp the sword up before the mune hits the koiguchi during noto.

All that said, this is neither an old blade nor a tired blade so the mune of the habaki shouldn't protrude that much as the machi should be cut deeply enough to build a functional habaki that aligns correctly.

Or to put it another way... There are ways to make a habaki with a high mune "work" in a manner of speaking. Of course the better solution is to simply make the habaki correctly in the first place.